Monday, August 23, 2004

Israe-Palestine, amendments by Raz to previous interview between a British ISM activist and him on 'anarchists against the wall' nkepuk

It would be wrong to call 'anarchists against the wall' an organization in the formal sense, and they themselves would probably prefer not to have this label. The label was assumed by and for the Israeli media once their actions came to its attention. It was clear from the interview that they would prefer just to be seen as anarchists, and as anarchists opposition to the wall would automatically follow. Shortly after the interview was conducted two of them initiated a direct action at the wall and smashed through two gates, one of which was electrified (its electrified for warning purposes its not mortal) . The action was given the encouragement and consent of the local Palestinians, and had Palestinian participation, but nevertheless demonstrated the special role the Israeli anarchists play in the unarmed struggle. As Israeli citizens they are in far more danger from the IDF and the legal system than international activists, but then again, as Israeli citizens they are more passionate in their opposition too.

1) what size is the organization and what are its main functions?

Raz - We are at demonstrations and actions once or twice a week, and on these demo's there are generally 10 to 15 of us. The organization is really more of a network for anarchists who want to do direct actions, and we have about 100 active people the contact list. As for our functions, they change with the Palestinians. Up until december last year we concentrated on direct actions against the wall - cutting and force opening gates , but we have slowly changed slightly after two big events: after the end of the Masha peace camp which lead to a redicalization of people and for the fance cutting and force opening gates actions, and the popular uprising in Budrus. In Budrus we moved towards popular uprising happily; we were invited to take part in daily demonstrations and resistance by the community themselves, and it was really cool to see the community rising up together. Since then we have tried to combine this sort of work with our direct action - this march could be considered part of this.

2)How has the state reacted since your creation?

EIn the first two actions we had, in Zubaba and Anin, there was no state intervention. Then in Masha on the 26th of september the army shot an anarchist in both legs. One activist was arrested after a demo and another one had to sign a contract promising not to damage the wall again (interviewers note: the Israeli security forces are fond such contracts, and are a useful propaganda tool for the Israeli public. The have the dual purpose of making the IDF seem calm and reasonable and the prisoner, normally uncharged, seem guilty by association.). A few activists have been interrogated by the Shabak (THE secret service). On demo's the police are always trying to arrest the Israelis now. It won't be too long before someone gets a serious prison sentence. We are under surveillance as well, which we know from experience. The Shabak are really on our back with monitoring and stopping actions before they happen Eif they know where and when we will cross through the wall into Palestine, all they have to do is notify the checkpoint or get the taxi we are in stopped on the way. When the International Court of Justice trial of the wall began in the Hague on the 23rd of February we got stopped on our way to a demo 2 times using different routes. We ended up going back to Tel Aviv and doing the demo outside the defance minister building there, which is basically like a massive military compound in the middle of town. A few people blocked the road and stop their cars coming out. 12 people were arrested for this. Many have been charged with assaulting police for passive resistance. The trial will be in September and I think this is where the legal system will catch up with us.

) How much support - if any - do you have within Israel?

Actually we do have some support from individuals in Israel. We do not have the official support of any groups, but individuals within different Israeli peace groups and also some journalists.(forgot to mantion - after the mas'ha shooting incident ,where gil na'amati was shoot in both legs by an i.d.f snipper, there was a few big demo's soppurting us and against the treatment of the i.d.f to israeli demonstrators in one demo road number 5 leading to the settlement of Ariel was blocked by hundreds of activists from all sorts of israeli peace groups for about 2 hours)

Internationally? There was a benefit gig organized for us in Amsterdam 2 months ago. a few months ago two of us toured Europe giving lectures and were able to collect some donations too.

) Was this tour within the anarchist community in the countries visited?

No, it was not explicitly anarchist. It was more about telling people the realities, about the wall and the occupation.

) How do you see the situation developing?

With continuing land confiscations, and continued extension to the fences, I do not see it getting any better. It looks like the resistance in Israel (especially in the government) to removing any settlements means the fence will go up, and go up where it is now. That means well into the green line(the so called palestinian side - for those who chose to take one...). Er... don't get me wrong I don't want the wall anywhere at all... For the situation in general, it won't come anywhere near peace whilst there are still settlements, and government

) Have you considered doing actions at settlements then?

No. The settler security would probably shoot us, and what would be the point if they didn't? The residents wouldn't listen to what we have to say. These people think what they are doing is the will of god. The army are reasonable in comparison.

What are the groups intentions for the future? Is there a particular direction the group is moving in or would like to move in?

No. We initiate together or at least agree on the same principles even though at the end its always their call 'coz its their life and they are the ones to suffer mostly from the occupation Palestinian initiatives basically. (Interviewers NB – like the ISM in this respect) We participate in their initiatives, but we always try to be involved in the planning and decision making too.

) Do you expect to grow in size?

Not really. We have really just united anarchists interested in direct action in Israel/palestine, I don't think that we have created any new ones!

) This brings me to my next question; for you personally, what came first - opposition to the occupation or anarchism?

Opposition to the occupation.

) Do you see it as natural that anarchists would support the struggle and your participation then? I'm playing devil's advocate, but isn't this a national liberation struggle, with a lot of religious and nationalistic dominance?

I expect anarchists to support the struggle. This is not a national liberation struggle it is a human rights struggle.( well, it is a national liberation struggle, but, first of all its a human rights struggle for freedom and equality and thats what matters to me)

) The right answer! In that case would you like to extend an invitation to anarchists to come out and work with you?

Sure. Its not something we actively do, but we have houses and places for people to stay. Its definitely a possibility.

) Do you have a message for the international anarchist community – they all read Freedom of course!

If they see this struggle as part of their struggle they are welcome here. We would like to have more contact with other organizations internationally. I know itfs a bit shitty, but money always helps too. We have a website I think, but I can't remember the address – there's a link to it off, an Israeli animal rights and anarchist website. It's probably best to email me at And thatfs for anything, not just if you want to give some money.

) Final question then. Are there any Palestinian anarchists?

Apparently yes! Some people said they met Palestinian anarchists in Balata refugee camp.(nablus) Some people we work with are secretly anarchists though they won't admit it! Perhaps you should ask them?
raz: writes on ] "the above article is basicly the same one with just some minor changes basicly facts that were not realy right. i took the liberty to post it without asking anyone since i was the one interviewed!!! peace raz"

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